Mormonism LIVE: 034: Ask Us Almost Anything & More

This weeks episode will feature RFM and Bill Reel unveiling a new show under the Mormonism Discussion Inc. umbrella and some reflection on last weeks episode regarding Nelson’s flight and we touch on the passing of Robert Ritner and spend the last half of the Show doing an AMA.

RESOURCES:

https://backyardprofessor.org/

http://fornspollfira.blogspot.com/2021/07/robert-kreich-ritner-jr-1953-2021.html

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/general-conference-saturday-evening-session-update

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Mormonism LIVE: 033: President Nelson’s Flight of Death

Today We explore a story President Nelson has told for years about a flight he was on in the 1970’s. He reports the plane’s engine exploding, the wing catching fire, a death spiral by the plane, the chaos aboard, and the plane’s landing in a farmer’s field. This story had many questioning the truthfulness of his account but there was never a smoking gun to get to the truth of the matter………. until now.

WHERE PRESIDENT NELSON OR OTHERS HAVE TOLD THE STORY

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1992/05/doors-of-death?lang=eng

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-nelson-argentina-2019

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2021/3/28/22355277/president-nelson-invites-all-to-feel-the-peace-and-hope-of-easter-by-focusing-on-the-savior

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=EMwKxmTLaCs&ab_channel=TheChurchofJesusChristofLatter-daySaints

Russell M. Nelson, From Heart to Heart: An Autobiography (Salt Lake City: Nelson, 1979)

Russell M. Nelson: Father, Surgeon, Apostle – Spencer J Condie: Author

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/friend/1994/06/most-important?lang=eng Russell M. Nelson, The Gateway We Call Death (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1995)

https://www.thechurchnews.com/archives/2004-09-18/gospel-principles-vital-to-correct-living-94995

https://www.deseret.com/2006/4/15/19948411/death-is-part-of-life-ex-surgeon-says

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2018-09-03/president-nelson-delivers-historic-message-to-dominican-latter-day-saints-in-spanish-8931

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/president-nelson-shares-5-lessons-life-has-taught-me-with-49000-in-safeco-field?lang=eng

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2018-10-26/president-nelson-finds-church-thriving-in-uruguay-thanks-to-multiple-generations-of-members-missionaries-156122

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-nelson-argentina-2019

THE CLAIMS PRESIDENT NELSON HAS MADE THAT WERE RED FLAGS

1.) One Engine on a small Two Engine plane Exploded.
2.) Said Engine caught fire.
3.) In the Explosion flammable material was spread to the plane and the plane itself was on fire.
4.) The plane did a “Death Spiral” which extinguished the fire
5.) The Pilot “turned on the Other Engine”
6.) The plane landed in a “Farmer’s Field”

THE FACTS THAT ALLOWED OTHERS TO NARROW WHAT TO LOOK FOR

 1.) The Date of the flight was reported as November 12, 1976
2.) He was flying from SLC to St. George to attend the inauguration of W. Rolfe Kerr as the president of Dixie College.
3.) Anytime a plane incurs a malfunction or there is a mechanical flight issue or pilot error the Law requires such to be recorded. The Explosion would necessitate a publicly available recorded log report. The plane on fire would necessitate a publicly available recorded log report. The Death Spiral would necessitate a publicly available recorded log report. The landing in a Farmer’s Field would necessitate a publicly available recorded log report.

IF THE STORY OCCURRED THE WAY PRESIDENT NELSON HAS REPORTED, THERE ABSOLUTELY WOULD BE A REPORT THAT IS PUBLICLY AVAILABLE. MOST FABRICATIONS HINGE ON SOME GRAIN OF TRUTH, SO MANY IN THE POST-MORMON COMMUNITY WENT INTO DETECTIVE MODE.

THE FLIGHT REPORT FOR THIS FLIGHT WAS FINALLY LOCATED (IT WAS DIFFICULT TO FIND DUE TO THE MUNDANE ISSUES INCURRED THAT SEEMINGLY CONTRADICT NELSON’S STORY )



https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/wNa3AAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA1090&dq=skywest+incidents+1976

1.) Engine never exploded and continued to run though rough
2.) There was no Engine Fire.
3.) The Plane itself was never on fire
4.) The Other Engine was never off
4.) The plane made a “Precautionary landing at the airport in Delta Utah and not a farmer’s field
5.) There are other smaller issues with number of passengers, length of flight, cutting fuel line to both engines, and the date of the flight but we grant some benefit of the doubt for distorted memory.

If the Church or its defenders want to claim the conclusion that this flight one day earlier is NOT the flight President Nelson is speaking about, then the burden of proof is on them to provide the evidence. To claim there was another “SKY WEST” flight also going from SLC TO SAINT GEORGE” that had “WORSE ISSUES” “ONE DAY LATER”, then provide the “MANDATORY PUBLICLY AVAILABLE FLIGHT REPORT” of said flight. Without such, said conclusion by the defenders would require more conjecture and allowances.


The Plane believed to be the One Nelson rode that day

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Mormonism LIVE : 028: John Dehlin and the Origination of Mormon Stories

Today we wit down with John Dehlin, host of Mormon Stories and Pioneer who blazed the trail into historical transparency regarding Mormon History and Social Dysfuntion using the internet as the vehicle. His podcast pioneered a new phase in Mormonism where Scholars talked openly and and the Church could be held accountable for its unhealthiness.

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Mormonism LIVE !: 025: The Adam God Deception

Mormonism has placed each believer into having to choose which Prophets you believe and which Prophets you don’t. Choosing which Prophets are right about the views they hold claiming they got them from God and which prophets were simply wrong claiming something came from God when it must surely be their own false view since the views are contradictory. In the end the disagreement seems so obviously contradictory that one must choose one claim over the other which leaves them dismissing a prophet and having that prophet apparently unable to discern between the voice of God and his own false imagination. And once you admit that prophets and those who place faith in them are no more able to discern truth from error via the Holy Ghost…… Then how does one navigate with certainty about their own spiritual knowings and those of the prophets when one could be misled this easily. And the Cherry on top is the LDS Church’s continued Deception around the issue including misleading members by articulating the issue as if Brigham didn’t teach it through their talks, the Church manuals, and private letters demanding silence.

RESOURCES:

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:Was_the%22Adam-God%22_theory_ever_taught_as_part_of_the_temple_endowment_ceremony_as_something_called_%22the_lecture_at_the_veil%22%3F

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1975/04/a-self-inflicted-purging?lang=eng

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1976/10/our-own-liahona?lang=eng

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1980/10/adam-the-archangel?lang=eng

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/bruce-r-mcconkie/seven-deadly-heresies/#byu-header

http://www.eugeneengland.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/BRM-to-EE-Feb-80-Combined.pdf

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-brigham-young/chapter-14?lang=eng

https://journalofdiscourses.com/9/27

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-brigham-young/chapter-4?lang=eng

https://www.journalofdiscourses.com/1/8

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Mormonism LIVE !: 022: Strange Soundbites And Stranger Lies

Recently a few regional conferences came to our attention where LDS Leaders said things that seem to run counter to the truth. We touch on those today and take your calls on Mormonism LIVE !

Support Mormonism LIVE ! by donating today.
https://mormonismlive.org/Donate-To-Mormonism-Live/

1.) We discuss Video Footage of Elder Holland and Sister Cordon claiming the Cordon’s don’t have any wealth to an audience made up in part by the poor in Africa. Which is a deceptive statement since Derek Cordon was with Omniture when they were bought out by adobe for 1.8 Billion and They live in a Million Dollar Home


https://youtu.be/Dp8dfu3TEG0?t=3180

2.) We discuss Video Footage of Elder Holland explaining how the Church is always behind and playing catch up with the world.

https://youtu.be/l3Aaf29dDhA?t=180

3.) We discuss footage from Elder Bednar claiming once again that Missionary work is growing and increasing and the producing incredible results.

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Mormonism LIVE ! : 017: Mormon Minecraft

As RFM prepared for last weeks episode on Miner’s Hill he came across some things in regards to Joseph Smith’s treasure Digging that you won’t want to miss.

Mormonism LIVE ! Tonight has multiple bombshells with one of them being YUGE! Like blew my mind HUUUUGE. These are all things almost everyone doesn’t know with the major bombshell absolutely being unknown to everyone and a game changer.1.) Who with and where did Joseph Smith dig specifically for the Gold plates before Cumorah? and before 1823? 2.) Proof the Church is still not being transparent with damaging documents even on its Joseph Smith Papers Project Website. They are still trying to avoid believers confronting the facts and keeping data from a believer accessing such..3.) We take the Apologist’s strongest evidence of the Book of Mormon and show a much more reasonable contemporary example in Joseph Smith’s milieu.4.) AND THE BIGGEST BOMBSHELL OF THEM ALL WHICH WE WILL UNVEIL ON THE SHOW TONIGHT………. YOU WON’T WANT TO MISS THIS.

Faculty of Abrac – https://twitter.com/shuffard/status/1294357248546951169/photo/1

W W Phelps letter to Eber D Howe – http://www.solomonspalding.com/NEWSP/HOWE/Ex04a.htm

Transcript of Joseph Knight Sr’s Recollection – https://byustudies.byu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/17.1JesseeJoseph.pdf

Brian Hales website showing the section of Oliver Cowdery’s letter to his brother Warren displaying the SCRAPE/AFFAIR – https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/oliver-cowdery-letter-to-warren-a-cowdery-olivers-brother-january-21-1838/

Joseph Smith Papers Project not being transparent about the letter – https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/letter-from-oliver-cowdery-21-january-1838/1

The full letter book including the Oliver/Warren Cowdery Letter about the Alger Scrape/Affair – https://mormonpolygamydocuments.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/JSP_Book_91.pdf

Nahum VS Nahom VS NHM – https://historyofmormonism.com/2012/11/14/newel-knight/

Nahum’s dissapearance – https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/they-are-my-friends-a-history-of-the-joseph-knight-family-18251850/

LDS Church’s Changing Narrative around the Translation Process – https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VZkKUmC-cjB_DnqWp9HHyW7v677e4IlUQORHn6ydOyA/edit?fbclid=IwAR3bbWLgmhXrMOq2vQxzDkN-bW3kbpJVE1-FcHLWm-tVYNmwPn3gtNx1hbc

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Mormonism LIVE !: 016: Peek Stones, Sheep’s Bones, and Gold Thrones all on Miner’s Hill

How prevalent was Joseph Smith’s treasure digging? Where all did Joseph Smith dig for treasures. What do we know about these treasure seeking sites? What do the historical sources tell us about these treasure digs? Black Sheep, Gold Furniture, Sacred scripture translated inside these man dug caves.

RESOURCES:

KC Kern & Greg Pavone Miner’s Hill Project Website 1 – https://archival.link/mormoncave/story?fbclid=IwAR0GLubkK_y8lfDciIgs2vYPHtnX9fkigPX0O5IA5QekS1aULryUM_q9xHA

KC Kern & Greg Pavone Miner’s Hill Project Website 2 – https://imgur.com/gallery/pRGJl?fbclid=IwAR1oN3pmDljsTA1w5TBndASDxTf648P6nCuVVnj3iRqVVpfRg8IERY2YftY

Dan Vogel’s The Locations of Joseph Smith’s Early Treasure Quests https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/03/VogelTreasuredigs.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1fHa7pfUtaf7CTlEhS-hvHSKCWIFXlig0t_AARJ_OxtELfWBS59LvpqMI

Historical Sources Related to Miner’s Hill Cave https://archival.link/mormoncave/sources?fbclid=IwAR2WXX-gYTmXB_Qn6cnonpqQ-lfDHlMri4g-2veT1SIgMhufxtDGjHSQIoI

Cumorah’s Cave PDF https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1360&context=jbms&fbclid=IwAR3HMObEXTYBVCOxZI5Jqx796yaOWu5hbFWlbKkvwAzdGpTNiWX5QSHcgiM

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Mormonism LIVE !: 015: Tales of Hofmann

On tonight’s episode RFM and Bill Reel dive further into the Mark Hofmann story exposing Elder Oaks and at the time Elder Gordon B. Hinckley as potentially deceiving and lying about what transpired in their meeting with Hofmann and their efforts to obtain what they believed were authentic and also damaging documents to the Church’s narrative and the faith of its members.  Bill concludes with revealing multiple never before seen documents including the Hofmann’s outline for the forged 116 pages of the book of Lehi, Hofmann’s Psychological evaluation, his education report cards, and a master list of all the signatures/authored documents he forged of famous people.

RESOURCES: 

Elder Oaks 1985 talk that includes much around the Hofmann affair including suggesting a Salamander could be interpreted as the angel Moroni – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hAL-qLOISs

Elder Oaks suggesting if we keep the commandments we won’t be deceived while the listener recognizes Elder Oaks, then Elder Gordon B Hinckley, and other leaders were in fact deceived by Hofmann – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hAL-qLOISs

Elder Oaks saying way too much about the Hofmann ordeal that in the end compromises the events as he tells them https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1987/10/recent-events-involving-church-history-and-forged-documents?lang=eng


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Mormonism LIVE !: 014: How Can It Not Be True?

Using a recent video published by the LDS Church titled “How Can It Not Be True”, RFM and Bill Reel take this short 1 minute and 15 second video that attempts to impose faulty evidence and faulty reasoning as proving the Church is true and decimate it. When they are finished, answering the question How can it not be true becomes quite easy.

RESOURCES:

How Can It Not Be True – LDS VIdeo – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvxH24aPkTQ

Chris Johnson – Stylistic Drift – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAGasQ7j_ZI

Christopher Smith – Stylistic Drift – http://www.withoutend.org/stylistic-drift-book-mormon-dictation/

Terrence Chambers – New Testament Phrases in the Book of Mormon – http://www.iosrjournals.org/iosr-jhss/papers/Vol.%2022%20Issue2/Version-1/R220201120147.pdf

Book of Mormon Anachronisms – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anachronisms_in_the_Book_of_Mormon

Criticism of the Book of Mormon – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Book_of_Mormon

19th century material in the Book of Mormon – https://www.churchistrue.com/blog/19th-century-protestant-phrases-in-book-of-mormon/

Book of Mormon Archeology – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_and_the_Book_of_Mormon

Faithful LDS Scholar Richard Bushman on 19th century material in the Book of Mormon – https://faenrandir.github.io/a_careful_examination/bushman-on-19th-century-phrasing-and-theology-in-the-book-of-mormon/

Richard Bushman on Joseph Smith producing pseudepigrapha – https://www.missedinsunday.com/memes/scripture/mormon-pseudepigrapha/

synopsis of Grant Palmer’s Insider’s view of Mormon Origins – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Insider%27s_View_of_Mormon_Origins

Grant Palmer’s Mormon Stories Interview – https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/mormon-stories-030-031-032-and-033-an-insiders-view-of-mormon-origins-an-interview-with-grant-palmer/

The Dreams of the Smith Family – Contains Joseph Smith Sr.’s dream that resembles the Vision of the Tree of Life – https://sunstonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/064-22-29.pdf

Introduction to the Grammatical and Substantive changes to the Book of Mormon – http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/3913intro.htm


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Mormonism LIVE !: 013: What Bad Faith Looks Like

Using a recent article in the Church Magazine “Liahona” (Formerly the Ensign) published by the LDS Church, RFM and Bill Reel dissect whether the Church acts in good faith with how it imposes its narrative and who it blames when that narrative is pointed out as not accurate.  When the Church is informed that it is being inaccurate how does the Church respond, both in its rhetoric in terms of who it blames for the problem and what it says it will do about the problem, as well as what it actually does to correct the problem.  The Video version of this episode and all other episodes can be found on youtube at this url  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5n_8_6j00PSeju0hu2CFXQ
Please consider donating to Mormonism LIVE ! to help us keep this live show going by CLICKING HERE

Swedish Rescue – https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/swedish-rescue-audio/

Blaming the artists for inaccurate depictions https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2015/10/joseph-the-seer?lang=eng

Del Parson’s experience with getting Church art approved https://mormonartist.net/interviews/del-parson/

images more current still obscuring the stone and the hat https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2017/12/joseph-smith-strength-out-of-weakness?lang=eng

Even after saying they will correct the problem of inaccurate art depictions they again in 2021 display a deeply inaccurate artistic depiction. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2021/01/what-greater-witness-can-you-have-than-from-god?lang=en

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MORMONISM LIVE !: 011: The Rules of the Game

There are five rules to the game of Mormonism; all of them from the perspective of church leaders:

Rule No. 1–We are going to hide stuff from you.

Rule No. 2–We are going to try to keep you from finding the stuff we are hiding from you.

Rule No. 3–We are going to lie about hiding stuff from you.

Rule No. 4–You can’t blame us for hiding stuff from you.

Rule No. 5–If you talk about the stuff we are hiding from you, we will hide you. (See Rule No. 2)Once you understand the five “rules of the game,” everything else falls into place.

RESOURCES:

https://youtu.be/4hAL-qLOISs

https://www.deseret.com/2008/8/2/20379462/be-cautious-about-lds-history-articles-elder-oaks-says?fbclid=IwAR22qAPf6HvVfRVyLX_faN2NGYRqvuxMQj-VUA1I20y_votqlxiy-egQMgI

https://youtu.be/Eqi-ll1PSr0?t=1

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teaching-seminary-preservice-readings-religion-370-471-and-475/the-mantle-is-far-far-greater-than-the-intellect?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR3UdfA0Yy1EIhOpnaIr42oeR8pTPuSmNs-PdFd6NpL5gjX78e1wG8FSqas

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1986/01/truth-and-more?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR3lTzVmfLSDIN22CSFzqtYRVpraCSTlnzt0U1k_zvoHGh8G9PwX9SfygG4

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/russell-m-nelson/truth-and-more/?fbclid=IwAR0cxr5OaF7YED0mPLTq57yGcYg5C2SCHgY94bhxST_OzJxo92Fe6Yy5dnk

https://youtu.be/lsi3wLiyiEE?t=520

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/president-oaks-counsels-young-couples-defending-the-gospel-on-the-frontline-?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR22qAPf6HvVfRVyLX_faN2NGYRqvuxMQj-VUA1I20y_votqlxiy-egQMgI

https://youtu.be/Uj2VWhuW50w?t=2666

https://youtu.be/RPeIgjZ0EQg?t=742

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1993/04/keep-the-faith?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR3lTzVmfLSDIN22CSFzqtYRVpraCSTlnzt0U1k_zvoHGh8G9PwX9SfygG4

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/video/2015-10-2060-elder-vern-p-stanfill?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR3_4rgQQtelIZwdX-Dm5w6LqIWum5E78RDrDY2He8BeKhjRbi3v-j9zttI

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2019/10/56andersen?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR3J7TtWjDfYfVjO6xcFXNa1-M5XXsU_luV2H4tj-vKGYOAXRF8TKRR0ci4

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2012/10/can-ye-feel-so-now?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR0_-V_9p9yrxkD9zcCcVpT-szyykb_vcN54k1x83hpb4Zvf5CEOEHN0zzk



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