Mormonism LIVE: 051: Denver Snuffer

Wednesday Nov. 24th, RFM and Bill sat down with Denver Snuffer and discuss his life and the happenings around the Christian fellowships of “the Remnants” movement. Denver Snuffer is an author of Restorationist devotional books, a lecturer, a speculative theologian, and a revelator to fellowships of the remnants movement, a spiritual movement in schism with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). The movement has a few thousand adherents, many of them members or former members of the LDS Church. He was excommunicated by the LDS Church in 2013 for refusing to cease publication of his 2011 book, Passing the Heavenly Gift which challenges many points of LDS orthodoxy. He subsequently has been identified as a prophet by many, and several of his teachings have been canonized as scripture.

RESOURCES:

https://denversnuffer.com/

https://medium.com/the-seer-stone/mormonism-has-a-new-religion-and-it-has-a-prophet-named-denver-snuffer-282f5e24df1e

https://kutv.com/news/local/lds-church-holds-special-meeting-to-denounce-false-prophet

http://ldspioneerarchitecture.blogspot.com/2016/02/architecture-highlights-prayer-circle.html

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Mormonism LIVE: 050: Bigfoot, Cain, & Prophetic Mormon Mythmaking

Preparing on a short week with our focus on Thrive & the Midnight Mormon’s Debate with RFM has us selecting an interesting topic that is light and fun. So Wednesday November 17th RFM and Bill Reel dive into the old folklore surrounding Bigfoot being none other than Cain. The origination story, and how Prophets, Seer’s, and Revelators have turned a strange story into some sort of pseudo doctrine, How FairMormon really screwed the pooch, and how Mormonism’s and Sasquatch’s narratives intertwine in other strange places you may not have seen coming.

RESOURCES:

Is Cain Bigfoot? The Truth Behind 5 Mormon Folklore Stories – https://www.ldsliving.com/is-cain-bigfoot-the-truth-behind-5-mormon-folklore-stories/s/64534

Awareness of racism eased Mormon folk tales regarding Cain, Bigfoot https://www.standard.net/lifestyle/2015/oct/18/awareness-of-racism-eased-mormon-folk-tales-regarding-cain-big/

Bigfoot In Mormon lore … is Bigfoot Cain?
https://utahstories.com/2019/07/bigfoot-in-mormon-lore-is-bigfoot-cain/


Journal of Mormon History Vol. 33, No. 3, 2007 (pg 74) https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1051&context=mormonhistory

Question: Does Cain still roam the earth, and does this account for stories about “Bigfoot”? – FAIR https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Does_Cain_still_roam_the_earth,_and_does_this_account_for_stories_about_%22Bigfoot%22%3F

Mormon theory of Bigfoot traces monster to Garden of Eden
https://www.syracuse.com/strangecny/2008/02/morman_theory_of_bigfoot_trace.html

The Mormon Bigfoot Genesis Theory – 10 Zen Monkeys
http://www.10zenmonkeys.com/2008/02/05/the-mormon-bigfoot-genesis-theory/


When Cain Appeared to Joseph Fielding Smith’s Brother & Talked with an Apostle
https://www.ldsliving.com/when-cain-appeared-to-joseph-fielding-smiths-brother-talked-with-an-apostle/s/83424


The Mark of the Curse: Lingering Racism in Mormon Doctrine?
https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/45228364.pdf


Poems 476–507 – Eliza R. Snow Lexicon https://erslexicon.wordpress.com/poems-476-507/

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/11/Cain-Bigfoot-Mathew-Bowman.pdf

https://archive.org/details/lifeofdavidwpatt00wilsrich/page/44/mode/2up

https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/45228364.pdf http://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/DPatten.html (nothing about Cain)

https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/c7b775e0-ef6c-4ebe-b205-f159d8f4cdd7/0/1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d5811ffxhgbph5v/MS_603-David_W_Patten_journal-ORIGINAL.pdf?dl=0 (Nothing about Cain)

https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/51730/pg51730-images.html#V

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Mormonism LIVE: 049: The Pre-Debate Tailgate Party

RFM and Bill Reel start with a conversation with a relatively recent legal action that completes the Apostolic Coup D’etat and does it with a coup de grâce. After which we discuss the upcoming trip to THRIVE this weekend and the debate on Saturday November 13th between RFM and Midnight Mormons

RESOURCES:

https://mormonismlive.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Amended-and-Restated-Articles-Filed-4-21-2020.pdf

https://mormonismlive.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Amended-Articles-Filed-6-19-19.pdf

https://mormonismlive.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Articles-of-Merger-Filed-11-18-2020.pdf

https://mormonismlive.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Officer-Appointment-Resolutions-Filed-7-19-2019.pdf

https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/company/0122898D:US

https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ut/555534-0145

http://www.mormonism101.com/2015/01/the-corporate-structure-of-mormon-church.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6DaOukG1cM&t=13s
1. TIME STAMP 0.00 – 0.18
2. TIME STAMP 7.24-9.00
3. TIME STAMP 9.00-9.21
4. TIME STAMP 20.00-21.50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6DaOukG1cM&t=140s
TIME STAMP 0.00 – 1.31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxaLKprguvo&t=79s ​
TIME STAMP 5.27-5.41.



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Mormonism LIVE: 048: Mark Elwood & The Glass Looker

We sit down with author and Illustrator of the book “The Glass Looker”, Mark Elwood and discuss how he incorporated Joseph Smith’s Treasure Digging into a beautiful animated book. We discuss how he decided what to include and what impact he hopes this book has

RESOURCES:

How the Project Came Together – https://theglasslooker.com/behind-the-scenes/

Order the Book – https://theglasslooker.com/product/volume1/

Mormon Discussion “168: Seer Stones, Folk Magic, and Alvin’s Hand” – https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2015/09/seer-stones-folk-magic-and-alvins-hand/

Mormonism LIVE !: 016: Peek Stones, Sheep’s Bones, and Gold Thrones all on Miner’s Hill – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4qiP2hZtcA

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Mormonism LIVE: 046: Suicide Within Mormon History & Theology

WARNING: We will be dealing with the sensitive topic of Self Harm. If you have self harm ideation and are triggered by discussion around such, please skip this episode in lieu of another.

In Tonight’s Episode Bill Reel and RFM will take a deep historical dive into the topic of Suicide within Mormon Theology and take a look at how the LDS Church has approached this issue giving historical context. What we learn is that LDS Leaders and Mormon Doctrine have had some ups and downs dealing with approaching such in a healthy way with healthy attitudes. Like everything else in Mormonism, this issue too is messy.

RESOURCES:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/1988/03/suicide-some-things-we-know-and-some-we-do-not?lang=eng

https://www.deseret.com/2018/7/2/20648210/lds-apostle-totally-false-that-suicide-leads-to-permanent-hell

https://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Suicide

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/suicide?lang=eng

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/2015/sep/20/church-teachings-on-suicide-have-changed-through-the-years/

https://kutv.com/news/local/lds-apostle-speaks-about-church-responsibility-in-mormon-lgbt-suicides-for-first-time

https://www.mrm.org/suicide-and-mormonism

https://www.pewforum.org/2013/11/21/religious-groups-views-on-end-of-life-issues/

https://deseretbook.com/p/suicide-some-things-we-know-do-not-m-russell-ballard-437?variant_id=112173-paperback

http://mormonscholar.org/an-old-sectarian-notion-lds-teachings-on-suicide-sin-and-damnation/

https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/6/6b/1958-Mormon_Doctrine-Bruce_R_McConkie.pdf (Agency & Suicides)

https://lds365.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Preventing-Suicide-Responding-After-Loss-LDS.pdf

https://childfriendlyfaith.org/2019/06/the-homophobic-teachings-of-the-mormon-church-killed-my-son/

https://www.dropbox.com/s/24uta1hgckvtzk0/MStar_19213.pdf?dl=0 (Millenial Star)

https://archive.org/details/juvenileinstructor1993/page/352/mode/2up?view=theater&q=juvenile+instructor

https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2021/10/13/22672169/are-latter-day-saint-lgbtq-youths-less-suicidal-a-new-study-asks-the-question-mormon

https://dsamh.utah.gov/pdf/sharp/2019/State%20of%20Utah%20Report.pdf

https://discussmormonism.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=154136&start=10

https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline We can all help prevent suicide. The Lifeline provides 24/7, free and confidential support for people in distress, prevention and crisis resources for you or your loved ones, and best practices for professionals.
1-800-273-8255

Tonight’s Episode will be dealing with the sensitive topic of suicide. If this topic might be triggering or such ideation is present. Please skip this episode and return back for next week’s. While we have consulted best practices National Suicide Prevention Lifeline We can all help prevent suicide. The Lifeline provides 24/7, free and confidential support for people in distress, prevention and crisis resources for you or your loved ones, and best practices for professionals. 1-800-273-8255

https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/talk-to-someone-now/

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Mormonism LIVE: 045: Mormonism and Macbeth

Radio Free Mormon takes Bill Reel and the rest of us through Shakespeare’s Macbeth in order to connect some dot in Mormonism on two issues. The First is the Apologetic response that if the critic can’t explain how something is done then it must be a miracle and second how Church Leaders always seem ambiguous on the issue of having seen Christ.

RESOURCES:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1971/04/the-spirit-beareth-record?lang=eng

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2014/04/the-witness?lang=eng

https://youtu.be/g0js6xWv6bc?t=3453

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAt4Od0teNg&t=545s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrMJ2YZD62M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xRO4nPbrxk

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Mormonism LIVE: 044: Straw Man vs Steel Man: A Lesson In Rational Thinking

Today we take a look at the Logical Fallacy of the Straw Man argument and juxtapose it against what it means to Steel Man someone. A Straw Man argument is when you misrepresent someone’s argument to make it easier to attack. We define a Straw Man argument, share an example, discuss how to incorporate good faith in a disagreement by instead choosing to Steel Man the disagreement, and then show how Mormonism holds up to the actual argument being made when that argument is represented fairly.

Elder Oaks remarked: “If we get an impression contrary to the scriptures, to the commandments of God, to the teachings of His leaders, then we know that it can’t be coming from the Holy Ghost. The gospel is consistent throughout.”


RESOURCES:

https://youtu.be/zYVBA8n9-pU?t=25

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2016/08/post-nuanced-view-church-gods-plan/

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2016/10/premium-holy-ghost-conundrum/

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/broadcasts/face-to-face/oaks-ballard?cid=HP_SU_19-11-2017_dPFD_fBCAST_xLIDyL1-B_&lang=eng

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/apostles-answer-questions-about-standards-doubts-during-ysa-face-to-face?lang=eng

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2004/10/be-not-deceived?lang=eng


https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual-2017/chapter-19-doctrine-and-covenants-50?lang=eng

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/how-do-i-recognize-and-understand-the-spirit?lang=eng

https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/good-news-from-god/recognize-true-worshippers/

https://www.learnreligions.com/how-to-find-a-church-700487

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycUvC9s4VYA

https://youtu.be/lwkh_aliF3E

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2002/10/the-marvelous-foundation-of-our-faith?lang=eng

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/07/12/commentary-latter-day/

https://emp.byui.edu/SATTERFIELDB/Talks/Feb%2015%2019798%20First%20Presidency%20Gods%20Love%20for%20all%20mankind.html

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2017/12/premium-lucy-walker-spiritual-experiences/

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Mormonism LIVE: 043: Modern Day Mormon Danites

In tonight’s Episode RFM and Bill Reel discuss the Danites in Mormonism, Who they were and what their purpose was. Then They quickly shift to showing how that same modus operandi is at work today inside Modern Mormonism through the SCMC, and other people and processes that work to ensure that believing members are kept at arms length from people, voices, and information that is both accurate and contradictory to the inaccurate but faithful dominant narrative.

RESOURCES:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danite

https://benjaminepark.com/

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/sensationalism-a-one-sided-perspective/

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/09/10/jana-riess-why-did-byu/

https://web.archive.org/web/20210120130850/https:/mi.byu.edu/scholars/benjamin-park/

https://mi.byu.edu/scholars/benjamin-park/

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Mormonism LIVE: 042: Revelation, Excommunications, Lies & Obfuscations: The 1886 John Taylor Divination

In 1886 LDS Prophet and Church President John Taylor documented a Revelation whereby Jesus Christ himself informed Taylor that Polygamy (The New and Everlasting Covenant) can and will NEVER be done away. Only to have the Church later disavow and distance themselves from Polygamy. On this Episode Bill Reel and RFM will help us understand the context of the 1886 Revelation/Vision, How the Church avoided dealing with Taylor’s Documented Revelation, How Apologists deal with it today, and lastly what it demonstrates about the integrity and honesty of the Church and its leaders around this event.

RESOURCES:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1886_Revelation

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/09/John-W.-Taylor-Trial.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1886_Revelation#/media/File:1886_Revelation.jpg

https://rsc.byu.edu/champion-liberty-john-taylor/john-revelator-written-revelations-john-taylor (Notice which is missing)

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Mormonism_and_polygamy/John_Taylor

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2016/03/202-replay-life-trial-john-w-taylor/

https://www.mormonwiki.com/John_W._Taylor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._Taylor_(Mormon)

http://www.gapages.com/taylojw1.htm

https://bycommonconsent.com/2010/03/13/correlation-an-uncorrelated-history-part-4-john-w-taylor-excommunicated/

https://mormonpolygamydocuments.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/1886-Revelation-article.pdf

https://www.scribd.com/document/23201016/1886-Priesthood-Succesion

https://gospeltangents.com/2020/04/taylors-1886-revelation/

https://rsc.byu.edu/champion-liberty-john-taylor/john-revelator-written-revelations-john-taylor#_edn88

Mismanaging God – Book


Basic Jist of the Show

“We would have to say, as two apostles who have covered the world and know the history of the Church and know the integrity of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve from the beginning, there has been no attempt on the part of the Church leaders to try to hide anything from anybody.” – Elder M Russell Ballard in attendance w/ Elder Oaks – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj2VWhuW50w

During the trial of John W. Taylor (apostle and son of Deceased Church President John Taylor), there was much discussion about the 1886 unpublished revelation of LDS Church President John Taylor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1886_Revelation)

During that Trial 5 men were present and also were alive and involved in the 1933 statement further below. Heber J Grant who would be Church president in 1933, A.W. Ivins who was in the First Presidency in 1933, George Albert Smith who would be a future Church President, David O McKay also a future Church President, and Joseph Fielding Smith who is a new apostle in 1911 and is an apostle and Church Historian in 1933 and a future Church President.

In the 1911 trial of John W Taylor (https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/09/John-W.-Taylor-Trial.pdf), there is a lengthy discussion over multiple days involving the 1886 unpublished revelation. Where these 5 men among the rest of the Q12 are deeply analyzing the 1886 revelation as well as discussing the whereabouts of the copies and original of this revelation. Here are the pertinent parts of the discussion

A. W. Ivins: *Do you know how extensively this revelation has been circulated in times past and has guided people in their actions in this regard?*J. W. TaylorBrother Joseph Robinson came to me and asked for a copy of it upon the suggestion of Brother Cowley and he got it from Brother Badger. Brother Joseph F. Smith Jr., also got a copy***, but I don’t know how many have got copies from these.***

J. F. Smith Jr (Joseph Fielding Smith).: It is true I obtained a copy of this revelation from Brother Rodney Badger. He let me take the original and I made a copy and filed it in the Historian’s Officethis was but a short time ago

The Church between 1886 and 1933 was dealing extensively with the Wooley’s and other Fundamentalists groups and leaders who constantly used the 1886 revelation as the basis for their authorization in continuing polygamy. When you understand the history it becomes clear that the Church absolutely authorized others to continue the principle at their own risk but under the direction of the LDS Church and now they were dealing with the monster they had created as they changed their mind on polygamy half way through. So on June 17 1933 the Church released the following First Presidency Statement which is a flat out lie and coverup.

“Official Statement” JUNE 17, 1933 from the First Presidency of the LDS Church, signed by Heber J. GrantA.W. Ivins and J. Reuben Clark, Jr., it states:

“It is alleged that on September 26–27, 1886, President John Taylor received a revelation from the Lord, the purported text is given in publications circulated apparently by or at the instance of this organization (Fundamentalists). As to this pretended revelation it should be said that the archives of the Church contain no such a revelation*;* the archives contain no record of any such a revelation*,* nor any evidence justifying a belief that any such a revelation was ever given. From the personal knowledge of some of us, from the uniform and common recollection of the presiding quorums of the Church*,* from the absence in the Church archives of any evidence whatsoever justifying any belief that such a revelation was given, we are justified in affirming that no such a revelation exists.” (footnote 2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1886_Revelation)

And once again we have Joseph Fielding Smith (a future Church President) as the man who stored away a document that ended up being withheld from the public, and four other men who lied with him including 3 other Church Presidents.

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Mormonism LIVE!: 041: Solving the LDS Church Homosexuality Issue

Mormonism LIVE!: 041: Solving the LDS Church Homosexuality Issue Elder Holland recently explained ““I and many of my Brethren have spent more time and shed more tears on this subject than we could ever adequately convey to you this morning, or any morning. We have spent hours discussing what the doctrine of the Church can and cannot provide the individuals and families struggling over this difficult issue. So, it is with scar tissue of our own that we are trying to avoid — and hope all will try to avoid — language, symbols and situations that are more divisive than unifying at the very time we want to show love for all of God’s children.” In spite of being Prophets, Seers, and Revelators; He seemingly also is acknowledging that Jesus isn’t coming into the room and they are trying to figure it out without him. So Radio Free Mormon and Bill Reel decide to be of assistance and offer solutions to the problem they are struggling to get an answer for. So on this episode, we will give these 15 men the theological and historical and doctrinal space to resolve this issue once and for all.

RESOURCES:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/elder-jeffrey-r-holland-2021-byu-university-conference

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/kingdoms-of-glory?lang=eng

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2019/10/17oaks?lang=eng

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2019/10/17oaks?lang=eng

https://radiofreemormon.org/2017/03/extra-radio-free-mormon-amazing-contradicting-joseph-smith/

https://radiofreemormon.org/2017/12/radio-free-mormon-022-ghost-homophobias-past/

https://bycommonconsent.com/2018/04/18/three-sub-degrees-in-the-celestial-kingdom/

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Mormonism LIVE! 040: Symphony Of LGBT Mis-Direction & Mr. Holland Dopus

Since its inception in 1830 LDS Leaders have been consistent at one thing. While lip service is given to being a Church that has Prophets, Seers, and Revelators who claim to speak for God and give direction from on high, these men seem to always be behind the times, stating outdated false misconceptions and teaching false and at times harmful rhetoric. No where can this be more easily recognized than on the LGBT issue. But….. sadly It doesn’t stop there.

RESOURCES:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg36L1989Ss&ab_channel=BYUSpeeches

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ay5dk9mky0p0sm7/OnTheRecord7-27.pdf?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y9z40tx8wd9rt9m/homosexuality.pdf?dl=0

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/interview-oaks-wickman-same-gender-attraction

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/same-sex-attraction?lang=eng

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/explaining-religious-freedom-and-lgbt-rights

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Mormonism LIVE: 039: When Mission Presidents Behave Badly

In this weeks episode of Mormonism LIVE, RFM and Bill Reel delve into some debauchery among past Mission Presidents. What they find is a common theme creating a pattern of bad behavior learning once again that unethical behavior can be made righteous within Mormonism.

RESOURCES:

https://byteline.blogspot.com/2007/09/sects-and-violence-part-5-continued.html

https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V21N03_29.pdf

https://www.exmormon.org/d6/drupal/France-and-Polygamous-Mormon-Missionaries

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/8fbs7u/1980s_australia_sydney_mission_prez_was_aspiring/

https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/dr-dave-christian-on-epistemology-and-the-polygamous-mission-president/

https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/deseretnews/name/orson-wright-obituary?pid=186032306

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/8f98mh/philander_knox_smartt_the_excommunicated_puerto/

https://voices.uchicago.edu/religionculture/2018/05/20/1522/

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/04/26/the-case-of-puerto-rico-when-the-mormon-church-promptly-removed-a-mission-president-who-deceived-and-victimized-young-female-missionaries/

https://universe.byu.edu/2018/04/27/mormon-church-kicks-out-man-who-supervised-young-women/




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Mormonism LIVE: 038: The Second Anointing

In Mormonism the very elite of membership including Stake Presidents, Mission Presidents, along with Seventies and the top 15 along with all their wives receive a secret ritual that confers to them that their “Calling and Election” has been made sure. What is this ritual? What do we know about it? How has the church framed it in their theology? and why do only a select few receive it? This and more on this week’s episode.

RESOURCES:

https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V16N01_12.pdf

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmyldshistory.blogspot.com%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0YbteylqfjyBp3P_E8vU6c3WdGzGrCsOldzbCteN1jHdANClh8-TNfGPQ&h=AT0n2SeXpCqsisJ4BybEBV99LV5oOGWdD4p1HtYeYqON6tSYCRjkkxg7aHU-9f2gtlBVUUcy0PkhgbhWw6H5-T9wuBaTiuWCo1PeaxDh-KypeEmBY6CoYcW_Kl-seflSHqc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_anointing

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrines-of-the-gospel/chapter-19?lang=eng Do not attempt in any way to discuss or answer questions about the second anointing.

www.mormonstories.org/podcast/tom-phillips-and-the-second-anointing/

http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/secondendowment.htm

https://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon508.htm

http://archives.lib.byu.edu/repositories/14/archival_objects/255732

http://academickids.com/encyclopedia/index.php/Second_Anointing

http://www.fact-index.com/s/se/second_anointing.html

https://www.lds-mormon.com/2danointing-shtml/

https://blog.mrm.org/2013/01/the-second-anointing-of-modern-day-mormonism/

https://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Calling_and_Election

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44368772



Quotes used in Episode

Notice these supporting statements in the manual https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/19-eternal-life?lang=eng&para=p34#p34
“Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed. All must be saved on the same principles.

“All men who become heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ will have to receive the fulness of the ordinances of his kingdom; and those who will not receive all the ordinances will come short of the fullness of that glory, if they do not lose the whole” (Smith, Teachings, 308–9).

“The elect of God comprise a very select group, an inner circle of faithful members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They are the portion of church members who are striving with all their hearts to keep the fulness of the gospel law in this life so that they can become inheritors of the fulness of gospel rewards in the life to come” (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 217).

“There are many who are called to serve in the kingdom of God. … The Lord has never promised to those who are unfaithful, who have received the call and appointment but have not endured, that they shall receive the blessing. While there are many who seemingly feel this to be the case, only those who serve and are faithful shall be chosen. The reason why so many fall away is explained to be, ‘because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men.’” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Church History and Modern Revelation, 2:177–78).   (Shame for those who don’t receive it and pride and feeling special for those who do.)

That Mary was Jesus wife in early LDS Theology

a.) Journal of Heber C. Kimball, “Book 91”, CHO; April 1, 1844; Typed w/o sic. Apriel the first day 1844 I Heber C Kimball received the washing of my feet, and was annointed by my wife Vilate fore my burial. that is my feet head Stomach. Even as Mary did Jesus, that She mite have a claim on him in the Reserrection in the City of Nauvoo [next page] In 1845 I received the washing of my feet by [left black in the original; Heber C. Kimball’s handwriting stops here and Vilate Kimball’s begins:] I Vilate Kimball do hereby certify that on the first day of April 1844 I attended to washing and anointing the head Stomach and feet of my dear companion Heber C Kimball, that I may have claim upon him in the morning of the first resurrection. /s/ Vilate Kimball

b.) 9. Mary Ellen A. Kimball Journal, Church Archives; February 18, 1857; W/O sic. [Heber C. Kimball] came to our room [and] said he did not feel well. spoke of an ordinance which he had previously taught and said that only one of his wives had attended to it. he then spoke of our Savior and his wives but more particularly of Mary [and her] faithfulness to her Lord Said Mary felt to say that she intended to devote her time to him for he had told her that his time was short and he must soon leave them Now she says I design to attend to his words and teaching Let Martha and the rest say what they would. The Savior then told Martha to let Mary alone for she had chosen the better part which should never be taken from her Now said He follow me and you shall see my father This she did even to the tomb and was the first to see him resurrected from the grave. 10. Samuel Hollister Rogers Journal; BYU Special Collections, Mss/1134/V.II/p.78  22 September 1879 Monday 22 September 1879 the evening of the fifty second Anniversary of the Angel delivering of the Plates of the Book of Mormon to Joseph Smith the Prophet of the Lord, I dedicated the house and room also blest the Oil after which my Ruth Anointed my feet and wiped them with the hair of her head, then kissed them after the pattern as written in the Testament of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The 144,000 in Revelation are those who receive the second anointing

a.)  History of the Church, Vol. 6:196; 4 February 1844; Discourse by Joseph Smith. This is not in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Sunday, 4.—I attended prayer-meeting with the quorum [of the Holy Order] in the assembly room, and made some remarks respecting the hundred and forty four thousand mentioned by John the Revelator, showing that the selection of persons to form that number had already commenced. [This Joseph could confidently say inasmuch as over 20 brethren had just received their second anointings.]  Journal of Wilford Woodruff; 4 February 1844. I met with the quorum in the evening Br / & Sister Lott was present we had a good / time in prayer Br Joseph gave us good instrution in meekness & humility the revelator / John remarks was quoted to in the evening / concerning the 144000 of the tribes of Israel / Cornelius P Lott & wife received their 2d Anointing / & Sealing.

b.) Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 366; 2 May 1844. Also H.C. 6:363-67. Discourse by Joseph Smith. I am going on in my progress for eternal life. It is not only necessary that you should be baptized for your dead, but you will have to go through all the ordinances for them, the same as you have gone through to save yourselves.  There will be 144,000 saviors on Mount Zion, and with them an innumerable host that no man can number. Oh! I beseech you to go forward, go forward and make your calling and election sure.

Contradiction of evidence pointing to things being hidden and lied about and Church Leaders promising they never hide or lie anything

Han Mattson’s Words about being instructed to lie and hide information about the Second Anointing

“One of Ballard’s primary directives was that no one share that they received the Second Anointing. He said uninitiated members shouldn’t even know the ordinance exists. “If anyone asks, deny any knowledge whatsoever,” – Hans Mattson relaying what he was told by M Russel Ballard

Tom Phillips on being given similar instruction

“In April 2002 Elder Harold G. Hillam of the First Quorum of Seventy, as President of the Europe West Area, called me into his office. He said he was extending to me and my wife (she was not present), on behalf of President Hinckley, an invitation to receive a ‘special blessing’ in the Preston England Temple. He asked whether I had heard of the ‘second endowment’ to which I replied no. I later told him that I had heard of it, but was so stunned by his invitation my mind went blank regarding the matter. He told me very few people receive this blessing and it must be kept secret. He said if the general membership knew about it there would be problems. More would want to receive the ordinance than the apostles have time to accommodate and members would wonder why ‘so and so’ had received it but they had not. I must not even tell my children. He said I should just tell them that their mother and I were going away for the day or weekend… I did not like lying to my family and friends as to our whereabouts that weekend. I did not feel comfortable as it was dishonest but I was instructed not to disclose what was happening. To tell people you will be at the temple on a Sunday, when supposedly all temples are closed, would raise further questions. I therefore told my children we were going to the temple for the weekend and would be attending a special meeting with Elder Ballard and the Area President on Sunday. This was not too unusual for my children to accept as I regularly attended Area Presidency meetings and had been assisting these same brethren the day before at a training session for stake presidents. Also, it was as truthful as I considered I could be while still keeping the second anointing secret… While walking in the temple grounds in the early evening we unexpectedly met a member of our ward who had attended a family wedding that day. She asked us what we were doing at the temple on a Saturday evening. I quickly mentioned something about Area Presidency meetings (she knew of my calling at the time, that I worked closely with the Area Presidency) and changed the subject. Again, I did not feel comfortable ‘lying for the Lord’.”

Elder Ballard claiming the Church has never hid anything

“We would have to say, as two Apostles who have covered the world and know the history of the Church and know the integrity of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve from the beginning, there has been no attempt on the part of the Church leaders to try to hide anything from anybody.” – Elder M Russell Ballard

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